PSM Forum

The Problem.
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Author:  amy [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

Author:  mobese [ Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

Author:  amy [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

Author:  unconfused [ Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

Yeah,, I'd call what Banksy has more of a 'notoriety',, not really 'anonymity'... he's the most famous street artist in the world and how anonymous is that really? much more would you know about him if you knew his name was "Phillip Rottenbush" anyway... he's interviewed throughout the documentary... and his particular 'anonymity' has more to do with the Spectacle of Banksy more than the art itself,,, the spectacle is what's driving up the prices of his work to the complete suckers that want to be a part of what they see as an important pop-culture moment... plus,, like the Bjork's and Beck's who've been let through the golden gates to financial freedoms,, there's only 1 ultra-famous Banksy,,, Banksy is not a working template for how to be an artist... I think people who may not know what its like to pour yr entire life into trying to communicate thru art and have it not come to fruition because of shifting fashions and bogus politics should have a 1 on 1 talk with someone like David Lynch about this stuff,, someone who you might respect that has to bust ass to find financial backing every time he wants to make a film and constantly fight against the tides of bullshit... more importantly,, what about the 900 other David Lynches there would've been in the last 50 years who weren't able to create enough of a brand/cult of personality to complete their projects and/or communicate anything in their time... ...take a look into yr CD collection and I doubt you will see many artists that randomly put a painting on a wall and then walked away in an anarchist ecstasy... I hate to say it,, but the history of underdog artists has been one strewn with utter despair,, sociological oppressions and immense frustration about their inability to communicate to the outer world. 10-4

ps. Amy,, did you see the Banksy documentary?,,, the end is a pretty funny/disturbing picture of what yr talking about when a guy Banksy knows gets famous for basically putting stencils of celebrities on the wall... I totally recommend seeing it to anyone just to ask yourself some basic questions about art and how its received...
Banksy's manager says it best when he says "I don't know who the joke's on... or if there is a joke"... terms of Girl Talk,, here's one of my favorite quotes from Tolstoy:::

"Art, in our society, has been so perverted that not only has bad art come to be considered good, but even the very perception of what art really is has been lost. In order to be able to speak about the art of our society, it is, therefore, first of all necessary to distinguish art from counterfeit art."
"there are people who have forgotten what the action of real art is, who expect something else from art (in our society the great majority are in this state), and that therefore such people may mistake for this aesthetic feeling the feeling of diversion and a certain excitement which they receive from counterfeits of art."


Author:  amy [ Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

Author:  eddiekiddeddie [ Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

The aspect of street art I find interesting is the act of illegally and inexorably implanting art into the landscapes before our eyes. The adventure is a good thing and it was fun to watch in the film. I'm not a big fan of Banksy and most of the street art examples though. The images are pretty bold (in drawing near to clichés) and I'd have a hard time distinguishing between the genuine expression of a Banksy and a Shepard Fairey for the reason that there really are no big differences. The pop-codes and clues overgrow the rest and that's what lacks to captivate me.
A funny thing with the distinctiveness of expression whether visual or musical, is that there really seems to be no way of approaching. Techniques, skills and mimicries, even large knowledge of genuine examples but not the defining bit to make a difference. Realistically most of our art, most art shown and done does not have it.
I used to think it has something to do with honesty but I have to amend.. There's loads of honest stuff out there that still doesn't have it. I felt compelled to relate it to a certain mental incapacity but that'll be too easy, I guess. Taking someone like Daniel Johnston in an attempt to distill the feature in his voice that transports this specific notion of outlying truth just doesn't lead anywhere. And who wants to know really?
The good thing about all this is, it's not so important. An endless lifetime in a tiny drawer of human history isn't that big of a deal either.. given that humanity is such a tit sucker.

There's a dokumentary on Bas Jan Ader I'm having trouble finding on the web. Good title after all.

Author:  Eschaton [ Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

We talk a lot about honest art, but we can't delude ourselves into thinking artists are any less attuned to market shares or demographics than anyone else. Artistry, no matter how noble a pursuit it might be, makes the artist no less human. I don't think it says anything perverse about the state of art. It's just that we get caught up with the grandeur of art, and forget that it can't not be tainted, in some form. Art is like gold: The least useful gold is unalloyed.

Author:  unconfused [ Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

This interview does a great job of offering a real/dry take on the struggles of an independent/homemade musician that has literally never caught a break,,, people are starting to notice him a little bit lately because of the Ariel Pink connection,, but the tide isn't exactly going to turn... >>this is me in a few years... and I'm prepared to own it!,,,
..I do think that his age is a factor in his less-visable-ness,,, and that's a little disturbing... there's a lot of young music getting press as we speak that seems purely interesting to people because its merely an expression of youth or young energy... -these things won't be changing soon...

"...because I’ve had such an intense, nonstop struggle getting any attention it amazes me that I must continue relying so much on the godfather tag. Ain’t too proud to beg, said the beggar man. How can a godfather remain so unknown by everyone? It must be a lie! A myth!"

"Pretty pathetic is the dry concept of a living artist imagining a public celebration of his work after he dies! Which has become quite a common thing these days, or even more specifically, a public “con$uming” of his posthumous “product.”

It is really starting to feel weird approaching age 60 and still struggling like a teenager. Not a contented feeling at all! ...Man, I’ve only got a couple hundred dollars. Where did I go wrong?" -R.STEVIE

Author:  eddiekiddeddie [ Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

Author:  Eschaton [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Problem.

So what is the difference between sincere self-expression and sincere self-expression that is commercially viable? Is it better to create art, or create form (for lack of a better word) that is profitable, and are the two necessarily exclusive?

I'm not trying to digress here by bringing this up again, but piracy is good if we believe in the nobility of art and its ability to communicate on a deeply human level, wouldn't we want art to be as available as possible?

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