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 Post subject: The Problem.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:04 pm 
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In this fast moving world the surface rules everything,,, it takes time and effort to wake up and dig beneath the headlines like the Chomsky's do,,,, should you spend your time decoding the big lie...or despising the cruel template we celebrate that encourages mass malnutritions?,,, why should anything matter beyond the surface if people don't want it?,,, why should music be about anything?,, there will always be another party and another girl with a zima and another pink cell phone and another phat beat to dial up on yr satellite radio and take you away from any flash feelings of sensing that the universe may not really give a shit about you...
...everybody talks about the modern situation,, everybody's whining about the kids and how they don't 'get it',, ...but what do those people get exactly?... we're all trapped in being just another 'in my day' guy... how can you be fair to youth?,, how can you avoid the temptations of bitterness when you witness the totally spiritually aimless confusions running rampant in the streets?... what about the other old cliche about how it's really all about youth? (ie. young movements, hippies/hardcore/rebellion etc)... let's check the first thing on pitchfork tv today:

http://pitchfork.com/tv/%23/musicvideo/ ... er-anticon

is this music? or just more sound signifying nothing that suggest more functionless fashion nihilism... I think there's a lot of days where most people (like me) can't tell anymore... and this seems to be an acute confusion for people trying to sell music that aren't making it
...commercials for diesel jeans will look like this in a month... this is a symptom of a culture of immense boredom taking itself for a brief and bogus ride (and then you die) 10-4


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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:01 pm 
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I believe that we (the whole planet of us) are in a transitional period. Not just in music, society, consumption, culture and everything that is attached, but a transition towards the next step in the right direction. Weather it'll happen in the next 40 years or the next 400 years, who knows.

I'm kinda excited about it either way.

This is what our universe looks like (without the distortion of time) from the perspective of a computer simulation...
Image

Kinda incredible.

Not sure if here or now is the place to delve more into that strange realm of the "singularity" or any other such science doodily.. but fun to touch on either way.


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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:02 pm 
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Society is sort of in a perpetual state of iconoclasm. The older generation watches the things they themselves cultured and helped grow die alongside them. It turns out to be mostly values. I don't know why our condition is so unsatisfying. I suspect it's because people are afraid to relate to each other, in any deeply intimate sense. Try to talk to someone about how you "feel" and watch how much nervous laughter it incites. We know there's a problem, but we're not sure what it is, and if we did, is there even a solution?

What were you intending to do when you started this book?

I wanted to do something sad. I'd done some funny stuff and some heavy, intellectual stuff, but I'd never done anything sad. And I wanted it not to have a single main character. The other banality would be: I wanted to do something real American, about what it's like to live in America around the millennium.

And what is that like?

There's something particularly sad about it, something that doesn't have very much to do with physical circumstances, or the economy, or any of the stuff that gets talked about in the news. It's more like a stomach-level sadness. I see it in myself and my friends in different ways. It manifests itself as a kind of lostness. Whether it's unique to our generation I really don't know.


--Salon interview with David Foster Wallace

http://www.salon.com/09/features/wallace1.html


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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:24 pm 
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i the sam wrote:
I believe that we.. are in a transitional period.... towards the next step in the right direction.



..yeah,, my friend Duncan Trussell talks about this a lot,,, lemme see if I can get him on here cuz he's a pretty amazing conversationalist-- to be honest though,, I've never known why that school of thought thinks that something particularly positive is coming towards us in the future... I assume that it comes from an instinctual feeling inside them... but it's always confused me... i'm not sure if yr position is the same as his but he talks about the next step of our evolution,, about all people realizing their interconnectedness and a transformation taking place... which I'm having trouble seeing signs of,, but I think he sees it in the internet... maybe I'm more of the school that feels things have always been largely the same but I haven't decided... ...obviously the birth of mankind itself and the industrial/technological revolution show massive shifts in and of themselves and why shouldn't that level of transformation happen again...


as for David Foster Wallace,,, I think his/our problem has been approached in psychology and philosophy and, in some ways, has been solved... there's Abraham Maslow/Viktor Frankl saying that a human being must develop and seek purpose in their life actively and consistently to function fully and defeat aimlessness,, there's the Eagles saying you've gotta let somebody love you,, there's the Existentialists saying that, to battle absurdity and meaninglessness, you must commit fully to something and give yourself to life itself... ...there's also the thorny issues of child abuse, poverty and clinical depression that obscure the entire subject and mar an individual's ability to achieve a basic sense of happiness/trust etc... but I actually don't know shit about DFW and have never read anything by him... 10-4


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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:55 pm 
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But why is it that we feel the need to give ourselves away to something? Why do we need fulfillment so badly? I think it's beyond the scope of psychology or even philosophy. It's such an inner-most thing, trying to understand how even you yourself feel about every single instance of being and consciousness, how could you ever understand even the smallest part of someone else? Love might have something to do with it, but I don't think we've adequately defined it, though poets and songwriters have been trying to for millenniums.


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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:09 pm 
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unconfused wrote:
...all people realizing their interconnectedness and a transformation taking place... industrial/technological revolution show massive shifts in and of themselves and why shouldn't that level of transformation happen again...


Is it our booming population or our ever growing connectedness the catalyst of technology growth and development? And would a lesser but more connected population still produce brilliant thinkers?

I've been reading and watching a bit of Kevin Kelly lately. He believes that technology as a whole can be described as being part of the kingdom of life - the 7th kingdom.
Everything in this existence seems to be in a state of entropy. Not so much with technology - it's forever accelerating, shrinking and becoming and more functional. What does technology want and what is the governing force behind the direction that it takes? Where will it go? If we assume that this process will continue to accelerate then can we also assume that technology would eventually become god? Or is there a tipping point at some stage? Maybe we won't make it that far.

If you haven't read this short story already then I suggest you give it a go...

The Last Question by Isaac Asimov
http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html


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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:56 am 
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Also this is kinda in the same realm as the picture that I posted earlier + your mention of your friend talking about the internet being an example of this new connectivity...

Fractals are fun:

This is a data visualization image of the internet...looks kinda familiar:
Image
This is the root system of mycelium:
Image
These are neurons:
Image

Science is fun.
I think I take solace and optimism from the aesthetics of these similarly-shaped, self-organized systems. I try to throw these ideas, mysteries, and potentials for optimism, into whatever song or drawing I create.
However all my songs and drawings seem to communicate some kind of pessimism...
funny that.


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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:39 am 
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i don't really see the harm in this Tobacco character. the music may be one dimensional and continue the same shtick throughout most of his work and black moth super rainbow's but to say its stuff like this that is sucking the life out of music may be a little harsh. i just can't see this guy taking off and becoming that next big thing to worry about you know. from what i can tell he is just playing into the culture that was already created before him. this form may be less noble and true, but music, and art for that matter, will never become a realm inhabited only by the good. the cliché and the negative i think are necessary to provide some kind of scope as to where we sit and where we are heading. guys like this will never stop playing with their computers. the girl talks of the world are here to stay and with great public demand. i say let them have their distractions. maybe i'm missing how this affects legitimate attempts at truth and good but even with all these distractions there will still be those who follow a different path. its the audiences loss if they miss out because they are too busy following some regurgitated beat and hook. i understand if the market is saturated by one trick ponies legit artist take a back seat if they don't play ball. But this rejection is exactly what i find endearing and incredibly relevant. i can't see a perfect world ever happening so i've just come to terms with how the machine works. maybe thats apathetic but i just see it as realistic.

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Last edited by Mtt on Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:17 am 
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Eschaton wrote:
But why is it that we feel the need to give ourselves away to something? Why do we need fulfillment so badly?


...to put it as brief as possible I think this is a condition of consciousness itself... (also unfortunately known as the 'fall of man')... in an Eastern sense it appears as if there's a duplicity in existing and knowing that we exist... I don't think we're giving ourselves away to 'something' in that dedicating ourselves to life itself is to pursue ourselves,,... it's a condition of wanting to live -
- i think the human mind has a special curse that leads some completely astray in the process of trying to find/be/chase themselves and it leads others to achieve moments of deep insight or enlightenment even... I think this is the way that consciousness lures us forward and is one of the most crucial elements as to why we've evolved... ...this drive to become healthier, happier and stronger is one of the closest evidences of the universe's mind/god that I can find... 10-4


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 Post subject: Re: The Problem.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Mtt wrote:
the music may be one dimensional and continue the same shtick throughout most of his work and black moth super rainbow's but to say its stuff like this that is sucking the life out of music may be a little harsh. i just can't see this guy taking off and becoming that next big thing to worry about you know. from what i can tell he is just playing into the culture that was already created before him. this form may be less noble and true, but music, and art for that matter, will never become a realm inhabited only by the good. the cliché and the negative i think are necessary to provide some kind of scope as to where we sit and where we are heading. guys like this will never stop playing with their computers. the girl talks of the world are here to stay and with great public demand. i say let them have their distractions. maybe i'm missing how this affects legitimate attempts at truth and good but even with all these distractions there will still be those who follow a different path. its the audiences loss if they miss out because they are too busy following some regurgitated beat and hook. i understand if the market is saturated by one trick ponies, legit artist take a back seat if they don't play ball. But this rejection is exactly what i find endearing and incredibly relevant. i can't see a perfect world every happening so i've just come to terms with how the machine works. maybe thats apathetic but i just see it as realistic.



You're right about all this for sure,,, and by the way,, I'm trying to put "I think" in front of these sentences and definitely not recommending a 'way' of thinking... titling a thread 'The Problem' is funny to me ..and it's just necessary to overturn everything to pick thru and examine the current state of affairs... I'm not worried about this particular artist I'd linked above either way,, it's only an exercise to me and an expose' of confusion (mine included) -
to be more clear,,, part of my issue with this kind of music is the seeming impracticality of it... the world is already just a massive carnival of distraction... so, when in the old days the criminal mind would take advantage of a vulnerable situation by robbing a train and slipping away through the cracks,, these days the criminal mind might put out a Girl Talk record instead and reap more benefits while putting himself at much less risk...
in my little world, wasting my time is a crime// so I avoid anything that's obscuring my view or not applicable to anything for me...
Quote:
guys like this will never stop playing with their computers.
...that is very well put and provides a great illustration of the masturbatory capitalist boredom that paints the walls of our lethargic collective mind...
Quote:
i can't see a perfect world every happening so i've just come to terms with how the machine works.

I totally get and agree with everything yr saying,, especially if you want to live in peace -- but where does creation come from...??.. it's inextricably tied to dissatisfaction... meaning, to create better things,, even only better entertainment,, we must become bored of the same wallpaper 'art' that people keep recycling and paying publicists to shovel onto the growing shit heap,,,if we want to stand up and contribute something more meaningful to the greater dialogue, instead of endlessly paying attention to what 'they' are doing and buying it just because it's a passable form of entertainment on a Friday night, then we have to let our peaceful state become disturbed and attempt to create better art... (to me) Girl Talk is just Talladega Nights Pt. 9 and I hope to have way better things to do before I die>>>>!


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its the audiences loss

AMEN! 10-4


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